Full Perm Marketplace Scams
I was recently contacted by a Full Perm Creator (Vaientine Resident of Underground) who has informed me of a seriously frustrating problem on marketplace regarding full perm illegal sales. Apparently there are many accounts on the marketplace reselling full perm creations that they do not have permission to resell. They purchase full perm items from valid full perm creators such as: Underground, Creative Studio, Deadpool, Meli Imako, CBB and many more, then they illegally resell those items, with full perms, at a lower price than the creators themselves.
This can be quite a frustrating ordeal for the original creators because not only do they have to DMCA these items over and over until they are taken down, but then they must also DMCA items that are being sold by people who have bought these illegal full perm items and are selling them in their stores thinking they have a legal copy of the item.
The valid full perm creators have contacted Linden Lab by chat, phone calls and emails but unfortunately nothing has been done about this issue. All they are being told to do is file DMCA’s. A DMCA take down usually takes a week to be taken down, but the next day, that account puts it right back on that same Marketplace as a new listing.
If you, or someone you know, purchases full perm items on marketplace to use in your own stores, here are some of the things that you should look for and be aware of before making a purchase:
- Before purchasing look at the seller’s other listings. If there is a hodgepodge of brand names and the vendors all look different, they are most likely an illegal seller.
- Purchase the items from the inworld store of the full perm creator instead of the marketplace, to ensure that you are not purchasing from an illegal seller.
- Most of the illegal sellers have blank profiles. Real full perm sellers usually have a full profile filled with links to their websites, mainstores and marketplace stores.
- Most Full Perm sellers have started using water marks on the vendor ads which say the name of the avatar that is supposed to be selling it. The illegal sellers are still using those ads, even with the watermark. So it is important to look at the name of the creator on the watermark, and if it isn’t that person selling it, don’t buy it.
- Try to find a way to report these items, either to Linden Lab by flagging the listing or to the original creator of the items.
Here are a few examples of illegal full perm sellers on marketplace that have already been DMCA’d several times: Sorriso Camino (now empty), merwish, hanstoff and Pollyana Jansma. These are the kinds of stores you want to avoid.
Please share this post with all your friends and family and on your social networks to create more awareness for this problem that full perm creators are facing. Remember to inform yourself and do your research before purchasing any items from these kinds of stores.
I have created a “Scams” category on my blog to inform you guys about different issues going on in the Second Life community. If you know of any issues or scams going on right now that you’d like me to blog about, please email me all of the information and I will look into it.
The scam I blogged about last year: GiftBot Discount Scam in Second Life still continues to be a major problem for content creators across the grid. Please re-read and share that one as well.
Thank you!
W00t! Thank you Strawberry for assisting in getting the word out – You ROCK!
Hello,
Its a nice gesture what you are doing here. I’m sure many people will appreciate that you are shedding light on this situation. However, unfortunately there isn’t much you, The DMCA law is a funny joke if you really read into it. Content gets stolen on all kinds of platforms and most people get away with it. Why? Because you have to jump through too many hoops to get result. And The platforms (Second Life, Youtube, etc) can’t be bothered. It is in there Terms of Service that YOU have to file a DMCA claim, and you have to get your paperwork in order and whatnot. Then if it goes to court and they simply don’t show up, you lose. there are countless cases like that, do a quick google search.
My store https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/18279 the original RipRock
@Someone who read your blog
That is very incorrect information. A DMCA is required by US law to remove stolen digital content, it has nothing to do with any ToS. There are no hoops to jump through, you fill out the form and fax it in. By LAW LL is required to remove the offending items. It is up to the violator to file a dispute to have them relisted. Then it goes to court and if they don’t show you automatically win. That’s how court works. People get away with it because the original creators don’t file.
At one point the MP was flooded with Disney and Avatar stuff. Then the DMCA hammer came down and overnight it all vanished. The DMCA process does work, you just have to use it.
My question is, what are we supposed to flag the item as? We can not flag it as stolen content and flagging it incorrectly is a violation of the ToU of the MP.
It is really sad that Linden Labs doesn’t do anything about this things when they should’ve. There’s no use in reporting them to Linden Labs since they don’t pretty much do anything. I guess they can’t also stop this from happening. I really wish that there will be a way to put an end to all this scams going around in SL. Even if it is a virtual world, or a game to others, it is still personal since the creators did a very hard work in creating those products. We should respect the creators.
As a shopper, how do I tell the difference between something that has been stolen and something legitimate? Is it strictly because the item is full perm? How does the common shopper who isn’t a creator nor on the Marketplace as a vendor tell the difference?
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I have happened upon some of these people who do not follow the rules. I let the original creators know so they can file a DCMA. It’s a never ending battle for sure and there will always be people out there who just don’t care. But there will always be those of us that do and who appreciate the hard work of creators in any platform. Information and social media can be a really powerful weapon to help in the fight. Thank you Berry for sharing this.
I have seen this and it was obvious to me it was a scammer. I don’t buy from scammers and I do report them. Very obvious when its very low priced.
That’s why I never buy or buy things full perm.
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Point 2 – Purchase the items from the inworld store of the full perm creator instead of the marketplace, to ensure that you are not purchasing from an illegal seller.
That is the only real way to avoid this, period.
It is time to realize that only thieves and LL will take advantages of shopping online against shopping in world.
I love your posts strawberry always informative
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Sadly, a lot of full perm merchants dont have inworld stores as the land is crazy expensive..
Btw, I know for a fact, that copybot accounts are closed from marketplace as soon as some reports them, but LL only shuts down the products after the original creators fill a dmca. In between, LL is profiting fully.
And worse, LL puts on hold an account after the original creator filled a abuse report against a thief (in this case some that was selling a free in world product copy/transfer as their own) Cause tey wanted the commissions of the item (dont forget any item on marketplace has a LL fee)
So lets be clear, LL is on this case the the one that profits more with this issue and that is why they dont do any real action to end it.
re. “—the land is crazy expensive..”
drake1nightfire;
Premium account, $9.50/month (less 300L$/week stipend) will entitle anyone to 512 sqM on the mainland with 117 prims. That is plenty for a simple platform with several vendors for products. That is surely worth the money if only to give customers a way to know exactly who they are buying from.
Another person selling items on the marketplace full perm. One goes and another one arrives although the accounts seem to be from 2011. I am also about to inform the original creators. This is the store currently selling full perm from other creators: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/186890?
Yet another one and again reporting to the designers
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/163594
Well, I get it if you are pissed at people who steal items and sell as their own, or they resell full-perm stuff without crediting the creator but … if they do – I do not see anything wrong with selling stuff cheaper. Rule of the market – cheapest one wins and template use in SL got so out of hand that everyone recycles same shoddy templates. Hell, if it was me, I’d play the bad guy and just give them away for free as with the technology available, you can easily scan any object and make a mesh out of it – the key is rigging and scripting.
I start to feel that this is just a war against Full perm items and that nobody really worries about what is important, How LL refuels this issue into their own interest.
Instead of being discussing how to avoid this we should be discussing is why LL does not act, making sure that if a dmca is filled and wins all the profits from the stolen product being sold should revert directly to the original creator?
” making sure that if a dmca is filled and wins all the profits from the stolen product being sold should revert directly to the original creator?”
That’s not how the law is written. LL is under no obligation to reimburse anyone. Please stop saying LL is letting this happen so they can make money. That is a libelous statement. They follow the letter of the law. When a DMCA is filed, they remove the offending items. They only have to remove the items listed in the DMCA. If someone has multiple ripped items and only one creator files a DMCA then the other items are legally allowed to stay on the MP. It is up to us to let the Original creators know. Sadly, some of them don’t care. I have sent many Notecards about ripped items only to have the creator say it wasn’t worth their time to file.
I just find this one with a buch of “new” listings on Marketplace: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/es-ES/stores/186890
It’s seem (imo) that is the same person with multiple accounts that it looking to sell and earn Lindens one way or another… thats pretty sad.
We don’t have a lot of tools to use in determining who made what when. So, I added this JIRA feature request. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-37644
If you think it would help, please stop by and click WATCH.
If you have an idea to improve the idea, please add it as a comment. Otherwise clicking WATCH is the best support.
Hi … I’m sorry for bad English.
Today I found that I unknowingly purchased goods from the fake seller and already have created their own products using the templates and resell. I must exclude from the store? Thanks for the reply.
The solution to this is to require verified payment information on all accounts in order to perform any financial transaction or hold any non-linden lab provided inventory.
LL cannot do any verification when PayPal is used to do payouts. As long as people can remain effectively anonymous nothing can be done. Sansar is taking a better approach to this I think but still not enough.
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DRAKE1NIGHTFIRE IS 100% RIGHT so ‘GUYS!’ (insert Berry’s annoying accent there) make sure you check your facts before swallowing all the bull on this pompous blog!! Don’t be sheep!! She’s certainly not a lawyer (durr) and spreads wrong information!!
Another scam store popped up today. I flag the items with disallowed and harmful/disruptive material.
It doesn’t us flag for copyright or ip infringement.
What do you suggest?
Another problem is the shops that purchase full perm exclusive and semi-exclusive items from content creators. The market is now being flooded with these items that were purchased at a premium price so this would not happen. This effects more than just the original content creators, it trickles down to all. LL really needs to do something, perhaps if they look long term, losing the larger commissions on the premium sales as opposed to smaller percentages from the frauds before they are closed down….just a thought…
Hey Berry Cunt Job, funny how you didn’t reply huh. Fucking ignorant and arrogant bitch.
Actually we have a whole lot another issue that fails to be addressed in copyright laws – Second Life TOS used to be different for various locations as they had different laws for various things. Not only those famed DMCAs – they do not relate to Europe at all (not meaning we do not have equivalent, it is just different one). We had offices in Germany and Holland that used local law, now there is none and North American law applies to North America.
Youtube has very huge problem with it as they also had localised offices (still do but they went all UASian law); and that does not mean creators do not respect intellectual rights just that they are under a law of a foreign country. Best example I have is a UK channel that got flagged for intellectual rights abuse for posting a short video of a program she was in (as a UK resident, can tell you that we cannot publish or host full material but can download it and the people present in those can post them fully). Despite her clearing it with network and them contacting Youtube, it taken some time (ITV).
In case of SL and in this case – full rights items, people usually go by their own country’s laws as SL used to apply to those not long ago – if you reported someone, they were judged by local laws but afraid Lindens got lazy. Best example is the silly test to upload mesh – there is a question that asks if a person can make a company called ‘N1ke’ and in UK they can, in North America they cannot.
Of course it could be applied to USian law if they had all hosts registered in North America but they do not. As a game content creator in various different European game communities build Metaverse same as those ‘greedy USian’ ones that were in it just for fun of it – well… we might move on guys… I know half did migrate to Kitely but post like those prove we really need to do it – there are plenty of other SL based engines available, hell better scripted and mesh ready but never got the chance to glow. Yes, all is free there, no awesome capitalism just server space for land you buy and if you want to create, you will anyway.
(This post is not about original meshes or textures – if artists want a fee for you to sell them, yep, awesome, they should be supported and it is a niche that dies in SL as well since those using templates and textures that are free of copyright sell them for money – no, this is not okay in EU law – you can use them in your own projects with credit but not make profit)
Another two stores with items full perm for sale, again reported to creators and flag as disallowed and harmful/disruptive material.
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/186998
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/187024
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Buying from these other sellers is a lot cheaper. I can pay 250 for a pair of pants I would otherwise have to spend 2500 for. 2500 is ridiculous. Chances of getting your money back by re-texturing and reselling those same pants is slim with the amount of people selling the same product. Just look around. You can easily spot the massive amounts of same products being sold by different people. Much love to the resellers who dont charge an arm and leg and give you 40 texture hud with them! But either way. 250 for a full perm set I can texture however I want, at least for my own use and not reselling purposes. Maybe full perm sellers should provide a Mod/Copy version cheaper with texture templates for the people that want to make their own for personal use. Sorry I’m not paying 1800-2500 for a pair of pants. I have bought 3-5 things from these marketplaces over time. I still own everything I bought, nothing has been deleted. But I also haven’t attempted to resell any of these either and don’t really plan to. If I do it wont be on Marketplace 🙂
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Es wundert mich überhaupt nicht das Leute Full Perm nochmal als solches weiter verkaufen, wenn ich mir die preise ansehe, kommt ein Outfit zwischen 1000 – 6000L auf dem Markt umgerechnet 20-35€ PRO Outfit Teil egal ob TOP oder BOTTOM wehr bitte kauft Virtuelles Mesh das du nicht einmal anfassen kannst für einen REAL Preiß? Ein Shirt kostet in Real in etwa 10€ EUCH WUNDERT ES WIRKLICH? Das andere Eure erstellten Sachen weiter verkaufen? Werdet mal erwachsen…
MANY HAVE EXORBITANT PRICES ABSOLUTLY BEYOND THE REALITY! : luannamils, Alexxis DeCuir, SayaNicole Cuttita, xXMomijiXx, Rux Anatra, Valspc, Mocak, MeliDae, coolbigbird,
do not be surprised the other steal!
Notes: I am not surprised that many steal and sell cheaper!
Oh they seem to be getting worse they are now saleing anything and everything. They put any random picture up and from what i have read in the comments of people who bought the stuff they sale a empty box. Yes i have seen the maitreay body slink body says full perm and very cheep. I understand someone new maybe falling for this but the ones leaving comments are almost all over 2 years old and should know better. I buy a lot of full perm stuff and always make sure i know its real and from the real person tat worked hard to make it.
Some people don’t realise the work involved when creating something original.
They don’t mesh and they don’t have the skills to make quality textures.
To texture properly with original work it takes layers and layers of work in a graphic program also some have paid thousands of dollars to get the programs needed to do this work. Not Lindens but rl money. Now with the mesh bodies its even more time consuming because you have to rig several sizes and that does not count the time to make the textures in several patterns and colors and set up huds. All this often taking several days even weeks to complete one item. The content creator has to make a profit that covers their time in real life wages. Otherwise what would be the point ?
500 L is roughly 2 dollars usd . Seriously think about it.
About ripped content stores on Marketplace. To cash out I had to fill in a vat with real life information and send it to LL . The lab could easily ask people who open marketplace stores to verify some of that information before being allowed to even start a Marketplace store. Also full permission people need to upload meshes right ? Do those meshes not have uuid’s . Is there no way for LL to implement a tool so that the real content creator can say here is the uuid on the first upload of that specific mesh. Seriously a lot of the ripped stores are selling meshes that have been uploaded by someone else because they do not get the dae files. Should be a way to verify who uploaded the mesh. People who sell full permission content do not allow the resell or distribution of that content full permission.
Granted some content is ripped with illegal viewers but as far as I know , I may be wrong but don’t they have to redo the rigging and fitting ?
There will always be thieves but its getting ridiculous. With some stricter rules it would certainly make it more difficult for them and sl would not be so appealing as a ghetto for thieves.
It seems to me that LL does not want to help because it would take more employee’s to police it all.
It sickens me because if it was not for the content creators second life would just be an empty grid and LL wouldn’t be making any money with it.