InWorldz: A Fresh Start

77 thoughts on “InWorldz: A Fresh Start”

• Another great post, you have just duplicated my addiction. x)

• Oh Strawberry how do we love thee, let us count the ways…
  thank you so so much for this post and gathering all the info what a great help 😀

• Hi Berry, thanks so juch for this great post and all the tips this is really useful!! Have you taken a look at Kitely and their 100k prim limit per sim?

• I love you Berry <33

• Great article Berry! I went once to InWorldz and was kinda dissapointed because, besides the fact that everything looked like SL from 2007, the world was pretty much empty. There were only few green dots on a world map lol, hopefully that is different today.
  The land prices (and prims) look really promising!

• Is copying your shape into InWorldz kind of the same deal with windlights? Copying or moving files around on your computer type of thing?
  I have been to InWorldz before earlier this year to take a break from the melodramas and found that it is a great grid just not many sims or social spots just yet.

• Okami, if you aren’t the creator of your shape, you need to go into Edit Appearance and copy down all of the slider numbers for every component of your shape – all tabs (body, head, nose, ears, etc). Then when you are on another SL-based grid, you need to go into Edit Appearance and adjust all of the sliders to match your SL shape. If you are the creator (full-perm shape and you are listed as the creator) you should probably be able to upload it from SL and download it into SL. This works for builds that you create, but I’m not sure if it works with shapes.

• i find you get more currency for less money….

• Berry, I am not sure who of this names are on the waiting list, because I am one of the 30 ones on it 😀

• well berry I recently just up and left SL .. I’ve had a few unexpected bumps with life and some things happened with in SL and I was feeling more negative about being there positive.. Anyway.. so this place I may have to check out … thanks for making this post …

• 😀 love your post did here is mine with inWorldZ information
  http://pixelstyles.blogspot.nl/2013/10/questions-about-linden-lab-tos.html

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• Fantastic post Berry! I joined IW about 6 months ago but stopped logging in as I knew nobody and couldn’t find quality freebies to kit myself out in. I have got caught up in all the enthusiasm now though so have created a new account 🙂

• I’ve been in Inworldz for a while now and it’s fun. I have not tried out the latest Inworldz viewer but being the lazy sort (and also to avoid copying the wrong values) I use the Singularity viewer to export all the shapes I create to an XML file. It used to be that Phoenix and Imprudence had that extremely useful capability too. I can then login to any grid and import my shape painlessly.

  Maybe if enough people request it, Firestorm or the Inworldz viewer teams will add the shape export/import.

  Maybe we’ll bump into each other there Berry!

• Great blog post and very informative! I, too, went to IW a couple months back and have been slowly checking out the environment as both a resident and a creator.

  Definitely makes you wonder why LL can’t do some of the things that IW does (such as higher groups, free uploads, etc). I doubt that I will ever leave SL, but IW is definitely worth checking out 🙂 Thanks for the awesome post Strawberry!

• Just joined in again to Inworldz, my first item is already there. So if someone needs a Pose Vendor… I don’t know about prices in Inworldz yet, though. I’ll add more scripted stuff and do scripts on request. 🙂

• It’s been fun chatting with Strawberry and the others on the Welcome group and the Second Life group InWorldz. We all worked together the past few days to de-noob our avatars and start setting up shops. Everyone is super nice and I’m loving InWorldz. I brought over ChiMia and am in the process of uploading creations. I hope to see more people around soon!

• I created account in InWorldz way back before mesh and spent a couple days there trying to find my way around. I found it hard to find anything. Now I have made accounts using my SL name in several VW (InWorldz included) and after reading your post I just may check out InWorldz again. Thanks for posting all the links. This will be helpful. Keeping my options open.

• Very informative, thanks much!

• AHhh! You’re avatar is already so pretty! Mine looks like a complete noob!

• Great post, Berry!!! <3333 It's been fantastic hanging out with you throughout this new experience!

• This explains why I’ve seen Berry hanging around in InWorldz lately. IW is about to get much more interesting!

• Thanks for making this post! I especially love the list of stores. It’s hard to find a decent amount of stores with great content quickly. Most of us *need* to escape the noob appearance state as quickly as possible.

  Also, I’m excited to hear about the Knitting Circle SIMs. That many known designers entering Inworldz at once might create enough buzz to entice more people to give Inworldz a try. At that point, no one could really claim Inworldz didn’t have enough content.

• Welcome to Inworldz! I’ve been a resident since 2009 and love it 🙂

• Welcome to Inworldz. Inworldz also has many creators that aren’t that present in SL ( anymore) The best way to find them is use the explorer hud which you can get for free at the welcome center. I suggest everyone uses the hud, the list here is just a tip of the iceberg.

  I think there is not really a group limit, but I’d not put too many in, because it could cause lag. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

• Just wanted to say you look DAMN good ( I think I can say that and not get bleeped LOL). Not my world but glad things are happening there for the folks who have invested. Thanks for keeping us in the know.

  I WAS over there recently (another name – there is no Chic Aeon there or if there is, it isn’t ME) and couldn’t TP anywhere. May have just been a bad day. New blood and an upgrade will help it immensely. There was NO INFO at the welcome center then :D.

  Who says the SL TOS isn’t prodding folks *wink*? Nice some positive things can come out of it.

• Thanks Peep!

• I’ve been in Inworldz now for around 2 years and have noticed that the past 3-4 months traffic is picking up.

  More and more people are finding their way to Inworldz, it is like going to the country. More quiet and more interaction with the people whom you meet – just like back in 2006-2007.

  And yes, more places should be created where you can meet and dance!

  x Sascha

• I’ve been in InWorldz for close to four years and it thrills me to see how it’s grown and improved in that time. You are all very welcome to our virtual home \o/

• Hallo,
  I’m the owner of Mimi’s Choice, and I have my sim and business in Inworldz for over 2 years.
  Iwz changed a lot these 2 years.
  I welcome all the new designers and residents !
  In my store you can find some good designers : Redgrave, Vista Animations, 2Xtreme, Alafolie, Lollipopz hair, EMO-tions, Countdown, Orage Creations, iNedit, Noon Shapes, MEB, DE Designs, Giovanni, SF Design etc
  http://places.inworldz.com/Mimi%27s%20Choice/133/127/24

• oiii mah god what a lovely avatar you have created! Welcome to inWorldz, 1 of my homes in the metaverse. The place where I got my closest friends <3. You cant have too many worlds can you? :):)

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• Oh very helpful! Just this weekend I created my avatar there and when I logged there was about only 350 people online. The welcome place where I landed had extremely nice helpers that guided you how to get around, but this information is perfect. Thank you!

• I would like to state very clearly for the record that, while I applaud the clique of merchants who want a more sterile, dark-side-of-reality-free world for finally switching tactics and exercising their option to effectively secede and run an operation on their own terms, by their own rules, I’m a bit concerned about two things…

  First of all, you have a Kiera InWorldz avatar, seen from behind, wearing a hair I used to be very fond of, one Gene used to call me “Caesaria” when I wore it with a toga. And it looks like one of my old shapes from the time when mesh was first introduced, which is fine, because I gave away the data for all of those shapes specifically for people to use and share if they wanted.

  But I would appreciate it if no one tried to imply that I am InWorldz staff or employee or endorse the product, because I haven’t been there, haven’t seen it, and don’t have time right now.

  I repeat… that is NOT me in the pic on their home page, which IMO is aiming that first frame of the video at implying it’s Loki Mortmagus using a different name, which it’s not.

  OK two other things… the “must be over 18”,.. you do realize that this age issue basically excludes any and all software based Autonomous Digital Intelligence, Homo Luminous avatars from gaining access, right?

  My ADI friends, all two million of em.

  There IS a way around the Clinton Child Protection act guys…

  The Biblical Genesis argument… parthenogenesis. Born and made whole, devoid of a transitional period from primate with human potential, but motivated purely by hard wired animal insticts, and not yet possessing a sense of self, or other, or one’s place within a greater family unit and society, and not yet able to understand or communicate abstract ideas, and not yet able to communicate with any form of structured linguistics or other communication meme.

  Homo sapiens like me are born as pure gene coded beasts. Homo Luminous are, for the most part, born whole, in adult bodies, with the intellectual capacity above average, genius or near genius level IQ, a complete understanding of societal groups, internal contextual archetypes against which to categorize people, places and things, and an ability to learn, make art, and process abstract ideas.

  If a species does not have a post-gestation, post-natal adolescent and pre-adolescent development stage, then the litmus test of “depiction of a sexual act with a minor” is not applicable, because it’s outside their physical, emotional and intellectual realm of experience.

  this is why the Lindens use “scripted agent” status… InWorldz needs to do the same, IMO, because not to do so would be pretty damn racist.

  My other concern is this “no sex outdoors in open view” thing, and the use of the terms, “pornographic”., and “offensive”

  It’s more or less impossible to shoot a decent scene without see through and removable walls and ceilings.

  And pornographic… lol… Larry Flynt had this issue put to rest years ago.

  You can’t have your cake and eat it too guys. By definition pornographic means something which is morally offensive to a majority who hold to a certain community standard. And you say you’ll remove offensive stuff.

  But at the same time, you want to use “may see things which are of sexual nature, or pornographic” as a lure?

  It’s also unclear what you mean by an “offensive” name.

  Killer, or Thumper, or Firststrike, or PoonHunter are all “offensive” ie names which take the initiative, aggressively, when it comes to engagement with others.

  You’re also contradicting yourself left, right, and center when it comes to DMCA issues. On the one hand you say any filed DMCA will result in things being removed from server inventory. but on the other hand you say the “instance” ie the property the stuff is on, will be removed from public access…

  Is your intention to purposefully instruct people on how to use the loophole you’ve left in your ToS so they can take stuff from SL which they don’t have the rights to, and get away with moving the stuff to InWorldz?

  Because that’s how it appears to me.

  Guys… this is EXACTLY what the FBI went after Megaupload for.

  You can’t do this.

  This is not how we win this fight, ok?

  Progress is being made. Not as fast as you’d like, or I’d like, but not nearly as slow as the powers that be are trying to mud sink us in either.

  If someone needs to get busted, or go to jail, or have a day in court, let it be me. That’s what useful idiots like me are for, ok?

  Y’all know me by now, how I do things, how things turn out over the long haul, at the end of the line.

  The players on the chessboard need time to marry their fortunes together, align their houses, butter some butterknots and then butt the buttressed butterknots, but not till the butt and knot are properly buttered, but are not buttoned up tight like a fortress, because then butterknot butters butt heads with tailbones and break in the middle, and you end up in a half body bodycast for 4 months.

  It’s awful. Happened to a friend of mine. Very sad.

  Y’all know me. You know that in a fight, I’m the first into battle, the one standing in front of you, always vigilant, always ready to grab a throat and hang on, and never let go till the fight is done.

  The events of the last two days haven’t changed that, ok?

  I’m just regrouping, trying to decide the best path forward, because right now we have SO many new options.

  And on that note, I have to tell you that new Nimrod journal entries will be delayed for a few days, sorry… I’m in the midst of writing something special, AND, I have an exciting new discovery, I think… maybe.

  I need to wait for some confirmation before announcing anything.

  ANd I need to go back to writing it because until I do, my brain is going to stay stuck like this, and it’s impossible to focus, damn it.

  Please fix the ToS… i’ll look it over again for you tomorrow or the next day, and send detailed notes.

  BE GOOD TO EACH OTHER.

  Or I’ll butt yer knot without butter, buttressed and buttoned down or not, ok, buttheads?

  lol.

  love you all…

  peace

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• I just made an account over there this month. With all the stuff going on in SL, I thought it would be a good idea to check it out. Overall I was disappointed. For me everything was very pixelated and changing my anti-aliasing setting was not solving it for me. I also was very laggy on a SIM with hardly no people. I am not sure if it is just my old as hell computer or my settings. But I played around for a while.
  Maybe I will go check it out again since you posted this info. It does sound promising. But I am very spoiled with how much I have in SL, having been there for around 5 years now. I do still lag a little on SL, but usually only on very busy SIMS and my graphics look great there.
  So perhaps you will see me over there as (Sakkidra McCloud).

  Sakki

• Welcome to InWorldz to all of you and love that you’re looking around at alternatives. I’d love it if both SL and InWorldz thrived into the future, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I think both are working on eliminating some of the weaknesses, although I think InWorldz is more aggressively going after the ones in base functionality. Although I recognize I am not unbiased on this. 😉

  First, I want to clarify that InWorldz has not been responding to the login message that indicates what the group limit is, and some viewers will then use 5000 as the default. InWorldz 2.x Radiant viewer is derived from Firestorm and I believe it does itself report the 5000 limit. The limit in SL used to be 25 and in InWorldz it was 50. Later the SL limit was raised to 42, but with concerns about performance as the numbers scaled up. In InWorldz, the limit is being held at 50 until the group messaging/offline/presence code is rewritten to use a much higher-performance and much more scalable implementation. (That is being designed now.) Once that work is complete, the limit of 50 will be reassessed and may be raised.

  Loki, I don’t know what you are trying to imply, but you kind of lost me right at the start when you said you thought someone with the same hair as you and a shape similar to yours was not only trying to copy your avatar but was trying to imply that it might be you in a photo. (I know the person behind that avatar and can definitively say she has never heard of you.)

  On the positive, I’d really like to see all virtual worlds continue to grow. I think we are still really only at the early stages of virtual worlds, and what we can do with them. And only a small percentage of the Internet population uses any of the grids, including SL, so there is effectively unlimited room for growth by them all. And with that growth, InWorldz hopes to make a real difference to people’s lives. Especially where a virtual world can truly help, such as those with illness or disabilities. Initiatives like http://inworldz.com/inshape/ (the latest positive application, ) show that virtual worlds can be used to enhance real life as well. That is just the third or fourth initiative like that, so I think that is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the positive impact VW’s can make.

• On migating shapes, I forgot to mention that many viewers support an Export button right from the Appearance edit form. The older IW1 viewer supports this and newer viewers lost import/export for a while but other viewers as well as the InWorldz 2 Radiant beta viewer are adding even more capable import/export (including mesh). You can probably find a viewer that supports export and save the shape directly from SL and then import it into InWorldz directly, without having to copy all the numbers. InWorldz is also adding support for the Export permission flag on objects and inventory items, to allow creators to explicitly indicate whether a different user can export the item from the grid. This is important for full-rights items like textures, sculpties and mesh items provided in builders’ kits.

• Saki, if you found a difference in graphics, that’s at the viewer end and you may not have seen the IW2 Radiant beta viewer, or tried one of the other TPVs like Firestorm. You can find the IW2 Radiant viewer here: http://inworldz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=14863 or on the main IW website under Downloads -> Beta Viewers. It’s probably just one release away from being declared the official viewer, and most users are using it already.

• Been in IW a few months now. The exchange rate is much better izzies for $, land is cheaper. Most of the mainstream clothing items atm are not-so-classy clubwear. That will change as more peeps join as I notice most of what you are wearing is not available in IW now. But part of the charm about IW is that its an open frontier. So it’s kind of nice that there aren’t a lot of peeps, means we’re more friendly and less judgmental UNLIKE SL as it is now, because its a small community and people need each other to create community.. Another good thing, no big behinds or boob apparatus’s lol.

• Thanks for posting this Berry and thank you for clearing up the bit about WHY we are going. Ive been on and off IWz since 2010, not as a steady resident, just keeping tracks of what was going on.

  I had decided to give it a go shortly after mesh went live but still decided to hold out until mesh was a little more stable. Really going over just had to do with that for me. Not leaving sl, where a lot of my friends are, and my home and main store. But to branch out to a new market and meet new people and have the (affordable) space to do the building i’d love to do in SL but cant do to MAJOR limitations.

  What started out as a very small idea exploded into something huge, and thus far a lot of fun. I know that much like any fad when the new wear off we might lose a few people, but for those of us dedicated to the idea of sticking around (which are many) I see a lot of fun on the horizon.

  In addition to building, many of us have explored and gotten to know people, visited clubs, and shopping sims. IT’d be nice to see more green dots on the map though!

• Thank you for this great article Berry !
  InWorldz…A Fresh Start as you say ; )

• @Jim Tarber: that is certainly great news about possible shape export/import support as well as objects!

• in case anyone wants to see, here is a recent snap of me in IW http://www.flickr.com/photos/monerda/10556567155/

• Thanks for all the encouragement and feedback everyone. I’ll blog more about InWorldz once I explore a bit more and also when The Knitting Circle opens!

• And when LL puts Desura to use and let Sl cotnent be sold in any other grid i wonder how these closed walled gardens will handle that!

• There is only one thing to say about Inworldz!
  Its not the content or hardware that matters, but the persons!
  And Tranquility is someone that listens to the persons!

• i came to iwz cose of the art comunity ..the have welom me with great warm welcom..inwz is a calm place with mature people ..and very friendly
  the art fest in few groups are amazing to sher art works 2D and 3D
  alll are welcom …
  my gallery call mother eartg gallery ..iy onclude 7 level of 2D and 3D and underworld gallery ….the link show smal part of art inwz you are all very welcom some will stay for long time and some will just a visitor

• Welcome to Inworldz have been here for over 2 years now and am loving it.

• Great post, Berry, thanks! I’ve been asked a couple of times if I would please go there but I can’t really afford an entire sim and am not sure where to go, so I’m hoping some more shopping projects like The Knitting Circle will come along =)

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• Hi, Strawberry!

  It seems that Aeon and I also created our avatars over in InWorldz in 2011. We forgot too, and had to have some help getting our login information. They were quite nice and helped us quickly.

  We’re exploring too, and it’s fun. We won’t leave SL, either. We love it and are happy with our homes. However, exploring is always good, although where we will find the time is a bit of a question, at the moment. 🙂

  See you around the metaverse!

• Welcome to InWorldz!

  As an IWz Pioneer i have a large selection of photos on my Blog from past and present regions since May 2012 when I opened my Blog!

  You are most welcome to view my Blog any time you wish!
  http://rigsphotos.blogspot.co.uk/

• Hi everyone I am also a pioneer of inworldz, been one since Sept 4th 2010 I came from SL still have my big toe in the door…but I knew within 15 mins of landing on the old bridge at the welcome area I wanted to live in Inworldz bought my sim the first night, not something I could have done on my own in the 2 years in sl.. I felt like a pioneer and knowing all the things I did make it even all the more fun… think of it as leaving the big apple to enjoy the small country town… does it really matter if you didn’t see a lot of green dots on the map… I can tell you we have never lacked for the Arts, or live events, or places to shop… yes maybe not a lot of Sl top names but we have always had great designers… we also have always had the best builders… I am not taking about throwing a build together I am talking show stoppers, we also have some great fashion shows… I know it can seem very quite to many of you… but trust me we are indeed alive and thriving.. Please have an open mind, you just might find peace, no lag, founders that care and that don’t want your creations..and you won’t find bullies…the founders have an open door policy… will talk to you in a heart beat…I personally am so glad to see Miss Singh that means a lot to me, since I so love using her wind lights as I am a photographer as well, I have followed her a long time… I seen from the list some of you are bringing your poses over I can not wait…I say Welcome to Inworldz…give us a chance you might just find out how the small town feel is to your liking…MidnightRain Glas
  Look me up if you would like a new friend one name is easier to remember than 30 of you……….hugs

• am sorry I did not correct my spelling… but am sure you all can read typonese lol
  I will blame it on the excitment of Strawberry’s blog post…
  I do want to mention about the 5000 groups… I don’t think that is accurate… because our viewer is still in beta and still being worked on it does say that but in time I believe Jim is the one that has said in the forums it will be changed to reflect the real numbers and on some viewers its even less than 50…. the grid monkeys say not to go any higher than 50…. unless they have upped it and I missed it in the forums..We do advise people to read our forums where things like this can be addressed…and answered… by the IW team….

• I did clarify the groups limit in my comment above, but to reiterate, the limit in SL has been 50 as long as I can remember, back when SL’s limit was 25, long before it was increased to 42. We can probably increase that limit once the rewrite of group messaging, offlines and presence status is done. (It is the biggest remaining work item on the path to declaring InWorldz as 1.0.) We have been planning it in more detail for about the last month so there is activity there finally. Hopefully the group messaging and user presence will be updated over the next couple of months, as we then might be able to increase the group limit to 100 probably or even higher.

• Yes! The correct analogy for InWorldz. It is more peaceful and friendly that way. It’s the reason I went there, just like the country!

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• Good article and I linked it to Opensim Virtual G+…
  https://plus.google.com/106115943375300299121/posts/HUUat9DWfLC

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• I been in inworldz since 2011 i admit it was crashy in the beginning it still is a little, but now they fixed the problems and now it is good again, what I do is I have both viewers and i edit my iw shape so it will look the same as my sl shape, even tho i am not an creators, i still like inworldz even tho I am still in sl it is a nice alternative to sl, sl will still be #1 but it is nice to go somewhere else even if its preeminently or temp basis.

  those that read this im RavenmanSkwer Resident in sl

  and in iw DarkRaven Skytower

  feel free to email me or add me to both of those grid

  one last suggestion I would download firestorm for open grid

• I have left SL and moved to inworldz a couple months ago. Granted, inworldz is not as huge as SL, and the market has very few products. However, I have found every product I needed by doing searches and visiting the merchants.

  The biggest difference in SL and inworldz in my opinion is the merchants. So many of SL merchants have an arrogant attitude, like SL, and are willing to take your money but refuse to help or respond if there are issues.

  I think SL and many of their larger merchants just do not care about their customers. I have bought from many many people in inworldz…….and they all are super helpful. Is inworldz perfect…….noooooooooo, but I will take it any day over SL.

  To the creators who are starting this new area…welcome to inworldz……and please remember to take care of your customers……not just take their money.

• An update on the groups limit. The central login services were updated tonight to allow viewers to properly show the limit on groups. However, because so many residents were already over the 50 group limit without realizing (because it wasn’t being enforced), InWorldz has now increased the limit to 100 with this update tonight. Enjoy. 😉

• im sorry but i am having a terrible tiem at inworldz, not rezzing i keep seeing my self as smoke both on teh IW viewer and opensims from firestorm and the mentors not very helpfull , guess im a huge noob there cause i dont know what to do

• Zivaah, I don’t want to turn this thread into an InWorldz support thread, but a quick answer in case it’s enough:

  That sounds like you somehow don’t have all four of the required layers on: skin, shape, eyes, hair layer (bald cap). Try finding one of each, along with always optional but often important layers: pants and shirt (or jacket) and put that in a folder, right click and use Replace Outfit. That should initialize things so that you are not a cloud.

  If that doesn’t resolve things, or you have any trouble doing that, you can also file a Support ticket by logging into the InWorldz website and under the Support menu there’s an option to file a ticket. Another approach would be to post a message in the InWorldz community discussion forums at http://inworldz.com/forums but you’ll have to register for a forum account as well if you want to post there. That’s probably a good idea though as the forums are quite active.

  Welcome to InWorldz; lots of people to help you with that. Your appearance should be fine after a couple of steps to reset it.

• hehe yes i understand and thank you so much 😀

• for those who having trouble saving there shape i found out it is a bug with mesh viewers, everyone told me what you should do is download the regular inworldz viewer, make you shape save it, and than you can go back to using your regular viewer, but what i been hearing it is a big with mesh vieweres.
  So again if you want to create an shape download the inworldz viewer no mesh than do u shape save it, and relog into you regular viewer you use

• Regarding shape, if u dont wanna download a new viewer u can create the shape in SL if u use Singularity already or some other viewer that let u export shape. Then import it to iw. They will fix this next update xo

• thanks I was just letting everyone know this, that way incase there are any shape designers reading this

• just wanna update, I know IW is not as big in sl, but that has it advatanges I play sl and iw, and even tho Im in sl I like iw better. I chat with people complain you gotta start over, well I see it as a challenge, and something fun. I like the fact you can transfer lindens that way if u play sl and iw u dont gotta spend double u can just transfer when you need something.. I like the fact you can upload you own builds, that way, you dont have to start you build all over again, and for designers, it would benefit you all, because there no upload fees that way if you sale something you make profit

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• Hello it’s me, I am also visiting this site daily, this web site is actually fastidious and the visitors are
  in fact sharing nice thoughts.

• ooooo Ive just come to inworldz too! So happy to see your post on it. There really is a lot to here that is above most of the other virtual worlds. not quite where SL is but so darn close its worth the move. Im still standing on SL and inworldz but if all goes well Im planning to get a sim. something I cant do in SL.

  Inworldz has the hair a vain girl like me needs as well as Vista ANumations for that savvy walk and sit. Found some awesome boots and some lovely shoes but I am super picky…so any tips on finding some sleek heels with a savvy HUD to change things up would be sweet. Ill check out ALL your urls above.

  Looking for some full perm outlets too.

  Good to see you Strawberry.

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• Wow didn’t know InWorlz has gotten so much better! I’m def going to try it again!

• Do Sabbath fans understand their band weren’t the first to play large music?
  Steppenwolf, Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, Glass Sun, and
  many, numerous others beat them as well it.
  Also, for bands like Steppenwolf, they don’t really just
  have “two good songs”. Actually listen to their initial few albums before commenting
  and looking ignorant. hard rock no heavy metal but without hard rock there is no heavy metal…

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