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What’s Your Digits? – Take 2: The Mesh Revolution!

Strawberry

What's Your Digits? - Take 2 - The Mesh Revolution!
Raw shot from SL, just cropped and used my “original” windlight setting.

On April 12th 2011, I wrote a post asking people to share their digits. I was feeling a little insecure about my shape and wanted to see how I measured up against others. I got a terrific response to that and I wanted to thank all those that participated.

Now, a year later, I’ve realized my shape has changed quite a bit. It is all because of mesh. The introduction of mesh on the grid has caused a lot of commotion about body shapes and how to deal with fitting into mesh clothing before the mesh deformer is out.

I thought the idea of Standard Sizing was a brilliant one. I know a lot of people have issues with the sizing, even I did not fit perfectly into any one particular size. But it still gave content creators some direction when creating sizing for their mesh clothing. For me, I noticed I would be in between a small and medium, depending on the creator. I didn’t like how some items looked on me in the medium size so I purposely shrunk myself down a bit in certain areas to fit into a small, or sometimes, an extra small.

Anyhow, I figured since I changed so much, it was time for me to share my updated numbers. This time I am also including the numbers that were used in standard sizing.

Here are my updated numbers:
Height – 66 (6’6″ using the Avatar Ruler)
Body Fat: 1
Head size – 58
Torso Muscle: 24
Breast Size: 30
Arm length – 75
Hand size – 20
Torso length – 55
Love Handles: 35
Belly Size: 8
Leg Muscle: 49
Leg length – 56
Hip width – 58
Butt Size: 25
Saddle Bags: 30
Foot size – 0

Please note: You DO NOT need to share all the numbers I have, just whatever you feel comfortable sharing. I don’t however recommend sharing facial numbers as that is what sets you apart and gives you a unique look.

I did not include my male shape numbers as I have pretty much retired him and his numbers remain the same as last year’s post, so I figured there was no point in posting him again. But, I would love to know how men are adapting to mesh and if they are willingly changing their shape to fit into standard sizing.

I know when I did this last year I upset a few people (especially some shapemakers) because they were concerned that people might be sharing numbers of shapes that they did not create on their own. Please keep in mind that I am not requesting anyone to share all or any of their numbers if they don’t want to. I am assuming everyone that shares whatever numbers they wish, have created the shapes themselves and/or have permission from the person that did. I’m not doing this to create drama, I am just looking to get into a discussion about mesh and how it has affected our behavior towards our avatar’s shape.

Digits

Like last year, I am going to keep the Digits Flickr Group open for those of you that would like to share your numbers again and also those that didn’t get a chance to last year and might want to join in.

Now I wanted to share a few links:

  1. Avatar Ruler – Last year I had used a different avatar height measuring tool, but I noticed that it disappeared from marketplace so I had recently updated my previous post with the new Avatar Ruler. I liked the concept of the avatar ruler and how it measures actual height using a proportionally scaled pole. You don’t have to use it in your post, but it’ll be great to see the height it shows for everyone. You’ll notice a drastic difference in numbers if you’ve used height measurement tools before. It’s free on marketplace!
  2. Vaki Zenovka’s Average Numbers – The lovely Vaki had taken all of last year’s numbers and found the average of each. You can find the average numbers for females and the average numbers for males on her blog.
  3. Average Shapes on Marketplace: Vaki has also very graciously created shapes using those numbers and made them available on marketplace for free, with full perms.

    4. Finally, I got a few questions for you guys which you can answer in your posts or flickrs or wherever you decide to share you numbers, if you do:

    1. How has the introduction of mesh affected your SL, if at all? Are you open to wearing mesh often or do you still shy away from it?
    2. Have you changed your shape to fit into mesh? If so, did you go bigger or smaller?
    3. Do you think the mesh deformer will resolve a lot of the issues people seem to have with mesh and will it encourage you to wear mesh more often, if you don’t already?

    I know a lot of you probably haven’t changed your shapes for mesh at all, so I’m assuming most of you still have the same numbers. I’m just looking to see how everyone is adapting to mesh. I am coming to the point where now the only thing I want to wear is mesh and I’m willing to change whatever I can to fit into it. Quite a scary thought for me as I was not as flexible about change last year.

    Anyhow, I think I’ve rambled enough for now. Thank you for taking the time to read this and also if you decide to participate. <3 All of the Digits Challenges can be viewed in the Digits Challenges Category.

    Credits:
    *Skin: PXL Faith Olive By Hart Larsson (not released yet)
    *Hair: Discord Designs -dDx- Mackenzie (Brunette) by Kallisti Burns (MESH)
    Lingerie: One Bad Pixel ::1bp:: Babytux Small Plum by Siddean Munro (MESH)
    *Pose: Diesel Works by Rogan Diesel

Strawberry

Strawberry has been a Second Life Resident since 2007 and a Linden Lab employee since 2019.

99 thoughts on “What’s Your Digits? – Take 2: The Mesh Revolution!”

  • Miro Collas
    June 30, 2012 at 1:52 am
    Permalink

    1. How has the introduction of mesh affected your SL, if at all? Are you open to wearing mesh often or do you still shy away from it?

    Hardly at all. The male standard sizes are ridiculous. Oddly, they seem to have decided that large men are fat. I wonder if those who created the “standards” ever went to any clubs, or even looked at their own customers. End result, I have bought exactly one mesh clothing item, as nothing else fits.

    I don’t know whether the same holds for women or not. But the male sizes were very poorly thought out. Yes I know there was a request for people to submit sizes – one that really didn’t circulate much. But even so, having done that, those who then created the “standards” should then have taken a bit of time to just check to see how they match the reality in SL. How many overweight avatars do you see? VERY few. Instead, you will see large, muscled avatars a lot more.

    2. Have you changed your shape to fit into mesh? If so, did you go bigger or smaller?

    I refuse to change my shape to fit clothing. Clothing needs to fit me, not the other way around. Why do creators feel that it is acceptable to require customers to change their appearance to fit into their creations?

    For that reason too, I will not purchase no-mod (prim) clothing, resizer or not. Resizers generally size uniformly, and so will never give a good fit. Plus there is no good reason to make prim clothing no-mod. The reasons I have heard are generally one of:
    – “it protects against theft”. Uhm, no it doesn’t.
    – “I don’t want people asking me for a fresh copy because they messed up”. Yay for customer service! I’ll know to shop elsewhere.

    3. Do you think the mesh deformer will resolve a lot of the issues people seem to have with mesh and will encourage you to wear mesh more often, if you don’t already?

    Right now, the deformer is much smoke. I LOVE the idea, but it isn’t going anywhere. I have much respect for Qarl, but overall, the project seems stalled right now. We’ll see.

    Numbers:
    Height: 99
    Body fat: 0
    Head size: 68
    Torso muscle: 99
    Breast size: n/a
    Pectorals: 0
    Arm length: 85
    Hand size: 62
    Torso length: 99
    Love handles: 33
    Belly size: 0
    Leg muscle: 99
    Leg length: 99
    Hip width: 33
    Butt size: 99
    Saddle bags: 18
    Foot size: 25

  • Amanda Shinji
    June 30, 2012 at 8:50 am
    Permalink

    Okies, first of all here are my stats:

    Height – 30 (6′ 4″ using Avatar Ruler – This does not make sense)
    Body Fat: 0
    Head Size: 50
    Torso Muscle: 27
    Breast Size: 20
    Arm Length: 44
    Hand Size: 20
    Torso Length: 49
    Love Handles: 24
    Belly Size: 0
    Leg Muscle: 42
    Leg Length: 94
    Hip Width: 52
    Butt Size: 24
    Saddle Bags: 20
    Foot Size: 0

    I’m really confused how someone with a height stat of 30 can be 2″ shorter than someone with a height stat of 66. Something doesn’t work there 😉 Anyway, on with the answers to the questions…

    1: How has the introduction of mesh affected your SL, if at all? Are you open to wearing mesh often or do you still shy away from it?

    I wear a lot of mesh, pretty much to the point that I’ve stopped wearing normal clothing layers and even sculpted clothes, although now and again I go back and wear older stuff. I’m still waiting for THE perfect pair of baggy combat trousers in SL, without the crotch around the knees 😉

    2: Have you changed your shape to fit into mesh? If so, did you go bigger or smaller?

    I was super reluctant to change my shape at first, but then as I had an ass before mesh, I was also havign issues with sculpted skirts sometimes too, so I suppose the change was inevitable. I’ve mainly shrunk my ass and chest although the breast shrinkage was more for me and how I wanted to look more than to comply with mesh sizings. It was just a happy coincidence. I definitely shrunk my ass to make mesh jeans etc. fit though, but I am perfectly happy with the outcome and don’t regret it one little bit.

    3: Do you think the mesh deformer will resolve a lot of the issues people seem to have with mesh and will it encourage you to wear mesh more often, if you don’t already?

    Well, I think that the mesh implementation was fundamentally flawed from the outset and that LL rushed it through to showcase how amazing SL was to try and impress the world during a time of real instability within the parent company, LL… The mesh deformer is a nice idea on paper, but should’ve been part of the original implementation and adding it as a backwards compatible step isn’t really going to work. It’s not going to give people what they want as there’ll still be issues and it’ll render all the pre-deformer mesh obsolete, with plenty of upset designers out there who will have to go back and rework their back catalogues to keep up with the new cutting edge, which is a lot of work for so little outcome.

    Personally, I think mesh is working well enough now, especially with the introduction of Standard Sizing. It’s a pity that so many mesh creators choose not to use it though. I’ve tried on many demos, only to find that the S or even the XS is still too large for me. Oh well, that’ll be a no sale then… 😉

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  • Regarding the height confusion, a lot of it has to do with the different scripted and client based height information people are getting.

    Here’s the basic story to it all. When the first “height detectors” were scripted, scripters used an LSL call named “AgentSize”, guessing, incorrectly, that this was avatar height.

    Eventually scripters realized this was wrong and discovering that there was no scripting function to call the avatar’s height, but also realizing that AgentSize changes with avatar height, they created various math fudges to create more or less correct height and this is what is also displayed in most TPVs like Firestorm.

    Jump ahead even further and LL, who is perpetually behind and seems to know less about SL than the users, finally decides to show avatar height in the appearance editor….using AgentSize. Before this is even released they acknowledge this is incorrect and promise to fix it.

    In true Linden fashion, it never gets fixed and hence the confusion on height whenever the topic comes up.

    I go into more detail on the topic, and why in SL it really is a problem, on my own blog here: http://pennycow.blogspot.com/2011/07/matter-of-scale.html

    The only 100% accurate way to get your avatar’s height is to hop on a pose stand and stretch a prim from the bottom of your bare feet to the top of your skull.

    Prims are measured in metres, as is land and everything else in SL. So the size of a prim can be converted from metres to feet and inches easily for those using imperial instead of metric.

    Anyways, I haven’t changed my shape to suit mesh, I find a lot of mesh content is made for poorly proportioned shapes, I’m hoping the mesh deformer patch, which will make mesh compatible with the SL avatar (Sheesh, LL. Not even compatible with your own avatar mesh? Who decided that was acceptable? It’s not!)

    On the other hand, mesh structures reinforce the idea that scale and camera placement both matter in SL because mesh objects rezzed inworld increase in Land Impact cost the larger you make them. A house made for your average SL avatar has about double the LI cost of that same house shrunk down for average human sizes (about 5-6′ tall) avatar.

    As a result, someone with a 6′ avatar and a sensibly placed camera can fit about twice as much, or more, content into the same amount of land as an 8′ tall avatar with the default camera. It’s like cutting the cost of land down to 1/4th.

  • Also, while the [OO] Height Ruler is much more accurate than what is shown in the appearance editor or a lot of other scripted height detectors, it adds a couple inches. I’m 5’7″, measured with a prim, and the [OO] ruler tells me I’m 5’9″. Even the glowing height marker floats noticeably over my head.

    There used to be one that was close to within a couple centimetres, I don’t see it on the Marketplace anymore, tho.

  • Just wanted to add that a free “create a realistic avatar” set is available from our teleport area.
    It comes with free shapes, instructions and lots of ofther goodies and information (thanks to Penny Patton, Oriolus Oliva and others) that will help you figure out how measurements and size works in SL.

    You can find it here, near the station;
    http://slurl.com/secondlife/1920s Berlin/236/232/751

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  • First off thanks for the trip down Memory Lane. Happily Flickr has the “photos by YOU” feature so I could find my old Digits photo and the post that went with it.

    Second, while I really enjoyed reading about the height meters, in my personal test, the new one matched the viewer info (Firestorm) AND the make a prim and go inside test. I do agree that it is iffy at best and not that much we can do for accuracy.

    And HERE is my post.

    http://chicatphilsplace.blogspot.com/2012/06/and-some-things-stay-same.html

    Going to add photo to Flickr now :D.

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  • I’m relying on the ‘Standard Sizes’ system rather than the averages from last year. Last years results were from before a lot of this past years work in teaching people proportion.

    Anatomy is still pretty off in SL, but with the standard sizes you can simulate it. And its become widely adopted by Mesh makers.

    Fortunately my shape was already close to one of the settings – and I only had to thin in a butt size a tiny bit and add a little bit to belly. 🙂

  • My numbers post got eaten or something.

    https://my.secondlife.com/pussycat.catnap/snapshots/4ff0a60e5d5d1c48fc000001
    – There’s a screen shot of my height, 5’5″ / 1.64m

    Here’s the key digits:

    Height: 3
    Body Thickness: 7
    Body Fat: 5
    Torso Muscle: 31
    Breast Size: 48
    Love Handles: 25
    Belly Size: 2
    Leg Muscle: 45
    Butt Size: 34
    Saddle Bags: 30
    Shoulders: 28
    Arm Length: 90
    Torso Length: 59
    Neck Length: 27
    Head size: 40
    Head Stretch: 58
    Leg Length: 73
    Hip Width: 49
    Hip Length: 24

  • “Anyways, I haven’t changed my shape to suit mesh, I find a lot of mesh content is made for poorly proportioned shapes”

    – I’ve actually had the opposite experience. Well, with a caveat.

    Mesh clothes don’t care about height and width and so on. What they do care about is bust / waist / hips. The standard sizes that are popular relate to that, not height. So an XXS avatar can be 8 feet tall, and a L avatar can be 4 feet tall… Or vice versa. 🙂

    I was able to take the base standard sizes, and then take a proportionate shape – and marry the two. Recreating a proportional avatar for all 5 of the ‘Standard Sizes’: XXS, XS, S, M, and L.
    – Anyone could do that, and then stretch it out in height (losing proportion but at least getting that popular ‘Roswell Alien look in SL’). 🙂

    Mesh cloths, since they care about Bust / Waist / Hips, have to be fairly messed up to not work on a proportional avatar. I’ve seen a few, but of the hundred odd pieces of mesh items I’ve bought, its less than a single handful.

  • “Oddly, they seem to have decided that large men are fat. I wonder if those who created the “standards” ever went to any clubs, or even looked at their own customers. End result, I have bought exactly one mesh clothing item, as nothing else fits.”

    This comes from your not understanding how mesh in SL is working. It will scale with size. Looking at your sliders, you are probably size XS or S.

    Mesh doesn’t care about height. It doesn’t care about width. It cares about -stretching-. Muscle, bust, waist, hips.

  • Venus Petrov
    July 1, 2012 at 3:41 pm
    Permalink

    Here are my digits:

    Height 194 cm
    Body fat 0
    Head size 50
    Torso muscle 41
    Breast size 65
    Arm length 80
    Hand size 10
    Torso length 60
    Love handles 20
    Belly size 3
    Leg muscle 50
    Leg length 55
    Hip width 60
    Butt size 27
    Saddle bags 27
    Foot size 0

  • I am so surprised with the response to this. Thank you so much for sharing your numbers and thoughts everyone. I am slowly going through all of the pictures in the flickr group and the links in this post, making sure I read everyone’s answers to the questions. Definitely learning a lot about how varying the opinions about mesh and the mesh deformer are.

    For those of you who have just shared your numbers and not had a chance to do a pic, I would love to see a pic to go with the accompanying numbers. It always helps to get a visual, if you can. You can just do a quick raw snapshot on your profile like I did here: https://my.secondlife.com/strawberry.singh/snapshots/4ff07d0a5d5d1c034d000001 in case you don’t have a flickr account.

    @ Miro, I can understand the frustrations you have with the mens sizes in standard sizing, men do seem to have a huge difference in shapes. I do think however that the mesh deformer is not completely up in smoke and they are actively working on it, having lots of conversations and meetings about it. I’m hoping it’ll hit the grid sooner than later.

    @ Amanda, I absolutely agree with you that the mesh deformer should have been part of the original implementation of mesh. I think it would have solved a lot of the issues and the uneasy feelings people have towards mesh today.

    @ Penny, thank you for the link to your post. I found it very informative.

    I’m going to try and respond to the rest of you in your respective posts! Thank you so much everyone once again for humoring me! <3

  • Venus Petrov
    July 1, 2012 at 4:36 pm
    Permalink

    With regards to your questions, Berry, I am very happy (mostly) with the mesh clothing I wear. I have had to tweak a bit and I think I have about 8 shapes now for different designers. I trust that the deformer will be live one of these days and make life much simpler for many of us.

    I can fit into S size skirts and S/XS size slacks easily enough. I am between an S and M size up top and size down a bit for the S because the M just looks too much like a tent otherwise.

    I do not miss the prim crotch bit for skirts/minis at all and I have not worn one in ages. I am culling through my inventory and giving away or dumping non-mesh stuff that I no longer wear. Mesh is here and I love it.

  • Tracy Redangel
    July 1, 2012 at 7:17 pm
    Permalink

    I like my avatar to be curvy, and while I LOVE mesh (absolutely LOVE it!) I do feel like some of my curviness has been taken away. I have somewhat exaggerated Jessica Rabit/Barbie doll figure (not too extreme though) I’m about 6.2 ft, I have a small waist, body fat at about 8. I keep my breasts anywhere from 60-70, depending on my outfit. I’ve always changed my breast size before mesh because some outfits they either look too big or too small for my own taste. My tush is about 53-55.
    I mostly wear medium sizes. I’ve found with Hucci I have to alter my shape the least. I actually made a separate shape to wear just for mesh (I’m not ready to throw away all my prim/texture items out just yet!!).
    I so badly desire Qarl’s mesh deformer to be implemented within SL. I feel like I have lost some of my body’s curves so I can wear mesh. I love Maitreya jeans, but …that’s not my butt.
    Now, my husband. He likes the idea of mesh, but he’s a HUGE avatar. My big hunk of love really likes mesh hair, so he has a couple of styles from Exile and Wasabi pills. He has not tried other mesh clothes, because he has not seen any mesh styles for males that he’s liked. He prefers more masculine, biker/rocker styles like inEdit or LaPointe & Bastchild. I really would like to get him to try something just to see how mesh would work with a giant like him lol.

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  • /me waves to all the lovely people, not afraid to share their numbers. Mine are below and posted on my feed. 🙂

    Height – 6′ 8″ (203cm)
    Body Fat: 2
    Head size – 60
    Torso Muscle: 41
    Pectorals: 27
    Arm length –56
    Hand size – 43
    Torso length – 77
    Love Handles: 21
    Belly Size: 5
    Leg Muscle: 70
    Leg length – 56
    Hip width – 45
    Butt Size: 60
    Saddle Bags: 38
    Foot size – 0

    https://my.secondlife.com/cereal/snapshots/4ff0fe2f948bc07db0000001

  • I don’t really like mesh clothing, it kills the immersion experience for me. You know, it’s great for photos but it seems like the mesh doesn’t really move that well = something that fits while I am holding still doesn’t fit so well when I am moving around. And worst of all, having to wear the invisiprims underneath, I’d rather wear a colored or patterned glitch layer than not exist underneath. I do like how a mesh skirt gets rid of the garage door effect though.

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  • you know, just yesterday I got called short. 6’2″ doesn’t sound all that short to me.

  • Miro Collas
    July 2, 2012 at 1:39 am
    Permalink

    @Pussycat:

    “This comes from your not understanding how mesh in SL is working. It will scale with size. Looking at your sliders, you are probably size XS or S.

    Mesh doesn’t care about height. It doesn’t care about width. It cares about -stretching-. Muscle, bust, waist, hips.”

    🙂 I know how mesh works. I also know that nothing fits, at any of the so called standard sizes. I have tried demos from many different makers, and only one thing ever fit me: a tank top, which is very loose fitting, but given what it is, that’s fine. No jeans fit, no shirts, nothing else.

    So all those people using these “standard” sizes are selling to those who are happy to change their shapers to fit – but not to those, like me, who refuse to. Oh and btw, I’m not talking about something that could be fixed with an alpha layer. On the other hand, I spent much time working to get a “bubble butt”, so I won’t go hiding that with an alpha just to wear mesh. Sorry to all the mesh creators out there, but modding or hiding bits of my avatar is not something I am willing to do, so I can wear your clothes.

    @Strawberry:

    We’ll see with the deformer. I’ve just learned not to hold my breath, that’s all. 🙂

    General thought… while I love how mesh moves with the body, it doesn’t move on its own. That may not matter too much with skirts, not at all with pants I guess, but in my view, it matters a great deal for hair. Mesh hair has no life to it whatsoever, compared to flexi – which moves (or can) even if you’re standing still, blowing in the SL wind. So while mesh clothing may be something I’d like to wear if/when the deformer is finished, when it comes to hair I tink I’ll stick with flexi, or flexi mixed with sculpts. Unless someone comes out with flexi mesh. 😉

  • Moi.Deluxe
    July 2, 2012 at 4:49 am
    Permalink

    Why should I have to fit in L,M,S,XS ? Ok in real life you have this sizes..but where are the body curves? maybe big tits you want or the belly or the butt.. Why we need to fix our shapes to these meshes? and most of the creator do not know how to cut the alpha layer..

    sorry, but mesh works best for hair and shoes.. not for the clothes.. We all miss about flexi style.. which is what reality means…

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  • Gideon McMillan
    July 2, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    Permalink

    Height – 45 (6’8″ using the Avatar Ruler)
    Body Thickness – 60
    Body Fat – 35
    Head size – 50
    Torso Muscle – 40
    Shoulders – 45
    Pectorals – 35
    Arm length – 45
    Hand size – 25
    Torso length – 45
    Love Handles – 15
    Belly Size – 15
    Leg Muscle – 60
    Leg length – 65
    Hip width – 30
    Hip length – 41
    Butt Size – 50
    Package – 25
    Saddle Bags – 25
    Foot size – 20

    So far, I only use mesh if it replaces my complete avatar (animal or petite).

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  • I just finished my blog posting. Have a look here:
    http://myslifemyway.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/kylis-digits/

    Here’s my digits too:
    Height: 32 (5’4″ using Av Ruler)
    Body Fat: 6
    Head size: 42
    Torso Muscle: 42
    Breast Size: 56
    Arm length: 51
    Hand size: 5
    Torso length: 47
    Love Handles: 30
    Belly Size: 0
    Leg Muscle: 45
    Leg length: 18
    Hip width: 65
    Butt Size: 40
    Saddle Bags: 18
    Foot size: 0

    Thank you 😀

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  • Just for yuks, here’s mine:

    Height: 137 cm (4′ 6″ using Av Ruler)
    Body Fat: 22
    Head size: 29
    Torso Muscle: 10
    Breast Size: 0
    Arm length: 0
    Hand size: 10
    Torso length: 0
    Love Handles: 0
    Belly Size: 6
    Leg Muscle: 29
    Leg length: 0
    Hip width: 0
    Butt Size: 0
    Saddle Bags: 0
    Foot size: 0

    Now then, to answer the questions:

    1. How has the introduction of mesh affected your SL, if at all?

    Sure has! I’ve been able to find some great low prim furniture and garden stuff, as well as some really good mesh vehicles. Love them.

    Of course, what you are asking about here is *rigged* mesh, which is at least a little different form just “mesh.” A bit like saying “oil” without signifying olive versus motor oils. Both provide a level of lubrication, but only one tastes very good!

    Rigged mesh – well, I’ve seen some great things. I’ve wasted a small amount of Lindens on them. I’ve given up on it, by and large. It’s just not going to fit me while allowing me the freedom to express an aspect of myself through my avatar. I’d rather give up on rigged mesh clothing than give up on “me.”

    2. Have you changed your shape to fit into mesh? If so, did you go bigger or smaller?

    See that last paragraph. Oh, if there was mesh that got close, ya, I’d tweak a couple things. I know there’s a slider somewhere in my butt that makes mesh puff out back there, so that would get tweaked. but if I wanted the stuff to fit, well, that would be the end of me.

    3. Do you think the mesh deformer will resolve a lot of the issues people seem to have with mesh and will it encourage you to wear mesh more often, if you don’t already?

    It won’t really encourage me from what I’ve seen. It would give me a lot of the issues I already face, and have overcome with some judicious editing. The binding on my shoulders and tummy, for two good examples. The deformer will, well, just deform me.

    So ya, that’s it from the short crowd. 🙂

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  • this is a great idea!
    i’m sharing my digits right away, as many mens mesh annoy me a lot lol:

    Height – 7′ 11″
    Body Fat: 0
    Head size – 80
    Torso Muscle – 68
    Pectorals – 7
    Arm length – 60
    Hand size – 35
    Leg Muscle – 78
    Leg length – 56
    Hip width – 60
    Butt Size – 65
    Package – 0
    Saddle Bags – 14
    Foot size – 10 (but can be zero)

  • Jack Abraham
    July 4, 2012 at 5:51 pm
    Permalink

    Since I heard there was a shortage of male mains in the sample…

    Height Overall: 192cm
    Height: 39
    Head Size: 48
    Arm Length: 49
    Hand Size: 32
    Leg Length: 63
    Foot Size: 0
    Pectorals: 37
    Hip Width: 49
    Butt Size: 59
    Package: 51
    Body Thickness: 8
    Body Fat: 0

    I’m wearing some mesh, but I won’t alter my shape to fit it – mesh is going to have to come to me. On the other hand, I’m building a lot with mesh, which rocks on toast.

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  • My issue with mesh and standard sizing is the same issue it has been since standard sizing was introduced. They are not standard sizes as I understand the norms or average of a female form.As far as I can tell, standard sizes expect an avatar with little to no breasts, and/or large gravity numbers, no body fat to speak of (at least in the small to medium that would ordinarily fit me) and very little in the way of a butt. I look like i have no butt in many of these meshes. Not attractive. And don’t get me started on the skinny little legs a lot of the mesh pants and jeans give me.

    And seriously, have you looked at the shapes of those people who came up with what was going to be called standard sizing? None of them, to my knowledge, have what I would call a busty or curvy rear end shape… beauty is in the eye of the beholder but a female shape without some curves is certainly NOT average or standard where I come from..

    No one asked me what I wanted in terms of a standard size, that’s for certain. In short, until there’s such a thing as a curvy version of these mesh sizes, whether it be extra small, small, medium, large, or extra large, I’m going to continue to be unhappy. I do not buy a lot of mesh for this reason. I realize right now mesh is a fad and everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon, some things like some of the beautiful tops that are coming out are very tempting – but there’s no point in buying something that forces me to deform my shape in order to fit it. To me that’s shape tyranny and it is NOT a good thing.

    And further more, a lot of the designers are making some mistakes imho in terms of what they are making. There’s a way to combine flexi with mesh for a more natural look, for example with hair or a skirt. There’s a way to combine the original clothing layers with mesh for a more realistic look for example with a top. I’ve seen a top , for example, one shouldered with a ruffle on the side. Wouldn’t be hard to make a simple strapless bustier thing underneath which would make it easier to camouflage fit problems, and an added flexi attachment would give the ruffle more movement.

    Another thing would be to provide more than one alpha layer. One size does not fit all, as we know from boots and other items, so more than one alpha layer for a shorter or longer torso for example would be useful. I put on a strapless top recently that would have been fine if the alpha layer didn’t come up so high on my avatar.

    ymmv

  • Miro Collas
    July 7, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    Permalink

    Totally agreeing with Jewel. Well written.

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